NOTES:  6/29/05 11:00-12:30
Telco Community Group
Notes taken by John Ennis, FiberNet Telecom Group



Telecom Community Group  Telco-CG

Franco Travostino  one of original co chairs, but will move out of this job

Will change name to Telco Community Group, no one objected.

Reminder about intellectual property agreement

Co-chairs

Frank Falcon, BT
Pramila Mullan, France Telecom

Agreed on proposed agenda

Telco-cg@ggf.org

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Pramila summarized discussions from 6/6/05 Supercomm discussions

Q  For the enabler to grid providers, was it limited to private lines?  For the Provider of managed services, did it 
imply an integration of IT with network?

A  We didn't capture those subtleties yet.  All is fair game and needs to be detailed.  On managed solution, what 
surfaced was that it included managed network and managed computing resources.  Plus, the telco's could be a utility 
provider  more of a hosting model, not a managed service.

Q  So, the network is invisible?  Customers are just buying computing services, with no idea how they get connected to 
them?

A  Yes.

Q  - What telecom companies were at the Telco RG session at Supercomm?

A  France Telecom, British Telecom, Deutsche Telekom, Telecom Italia, no US operators except for Level 3.

C  We need to move forward

C  At the Korea GGF session, there were many Asian operators.

Q  Are there any USA Telcos here today?

A - Yes, only FiberNet Telecom.  FiberNet rep described his company's business model.

Q  Why have the US telcos not turned up?

A  We're trying to start up the community now.  It will take time to get all the right players.

C  We have many European and Asian telcos.

Q  What is community group?  Why is this group not labeled research?

A  We don't do standards, trying to get a community of users going.

Q - Great idea for group.  Is the grid community asking for anything better than best effort IP?  

Q  Where to you get that conclusion?

A  There is no adoption of grid network service.  Where is the pull from the grid community?

A  Large  enterprises are building grids with dark fiber and their own equipment.  Far more than best effort IP.

C Outreach to grid community is required to get them off best effort IP.

C  EGA said we cannot be satisfied with best effort.  Grids in business environments as opposed to scientific, research,
 education, NEED better than best effort IP.  Need SLAs.

C  EGA is focused on commercial enterprise.  Best effort is not good enough. Need guarantees if you want people to pay.

C  Deutsche Telekom at June meeting talked about entertainment use case  Dreamworks  processing for Shrek2.  30 
terabytes of data for crowd scenes.  Millions of hours of computing time.  Mandatory to get work done on time to release
 movie on time.  IP line or best effort not good enough!  Trying to understand what marketplace is demanding of grid for
 telco resources.

Q  What about interest of research education providers?

A  Two workshops for these NRNs and Grid.  Italian NRNs have interest.  Not a strong demand for service level agreements
.

A  Research and Network world.  Lofar, CERN, etc. are emerging.  Economically unwise to hub around routers.  Very 
expensive.  Makes sense to go to lamdas and dark fiber.  Try and only get lamdas for the time you need them for certain 
applications.  Execute work flows in a restricted amount of time.  They want to do science, not worry about networks.  
Maybe QOS can only be met by point to point connections.  High energy physics requires Gigabits.  End users want IP.  
Looking at hybrid networking.  Use lamda networks with Internet alongside it.  VPN oriented services.

Q  NRN community wants short holding times for their computing use.  Does that imply switching?

A  Yes.  

Q  so you need lamda circuit switching?

A  Yes. 

C Let's take this off line.  There is a gap between research needs and what people make money out of. ...