Minutes from the ByteIO Telcon on 19/4/05
-----------------------------------------

Attending: 	Mark Morgan, UVa (MM)
		Neil Chue Hong, EPCC (NCH)
		Dave Berry, NeSC (DB)
		Mario Antonioletti, EPCC (MAA)

Date of next Telcon: 3 May 05 at 14:00 UTC (09:00 CDT / 10:00 EDT / 15:00 BST / 16:00 CEST) 

Call details:
- UK Dial In: 0845 245 0224
- US Dial In: 1-866-838-0046
- International Dial In: +44 1452 542309
- PIN Number: 369786

Agenda of future telcons:
-  3 May: discuss draft template for use cases and discuss initial use cases
- 17 May: continue looking at use cases, discuss bulk data transfer protocols, and requirements for F2F meeting
- 26 May: OGSA Data and ByteIO F2F in London (extreme discussion of documents)
- 31 May: Discussion of arrangements for GGF, discussion of prototype specification and draft documents
- 14 June: Further discussion of specification and use case documents
- 26-29 June: GGF14 Chicago


Discussion of data transfer protocols
-------------------------------------

MM had looked at WebDAV, does it really apply? 
Also at PBIO, looks like an alternative to XDR.
Bill Allcock recommended looking at XIO as well for background.
Does ByteIO fit more at the client API level?

MAA: What does PBIO stand for? - MM will pass on link

MTOM will be in WSE3.0 but unclear when it will be released.
Axis2 has MTOM in plans, but not yet done.

NCH try to ask Microsoft Europe contact whether WSE3.0 is coming out soon
and whether DIME will still be around.

Discussion of use cases
-----------------------

Came up with a use case from the point of view of an NFS server accessing a ByteIO web service. Then a more grid aware 
application, which knows about ByteIO interface, so can make decisions. Have a client which wishes a more connection 
oriented view of a ByteIO stream, establishes an endpoint, which marks a particular position in a file.

One of the things which pops up is a way of locking the data source.
Avaki allowed the placing of an advisory lock, which is used by NFS protocol, but doesn't seem to be heavily utilised. 
People worry about it but don't often do anything about it.

Simple cases don't need locking but we will probably have a lot of people standing up at next GGF saying we need locking
 :-)

DAIS discussion of use case has revealed a possible hole in their specification to do with getting data into a data 
service (rather than getting data out).
 
DB contacted the NEC guys, and they sent along a simple visualisation application use case.

Use Cases - write some down, come up with a template on what we want to get from a use case, reformat our use cases into
 this format.
what functionality will be layered on top of ByteIO

[MM] Mail out a draft template for use cases for next Telcon.

Minutes from the ByteIO Telcon on 12/4/05
-----------------------------------------

Attending: 	Mark Morgan (MM)
		Neil Chue Hong (NCH)
		Dave Berry (DB)

Agenda
- Charter Discussion
- Telcon times
- Kicking off technical discussion

Date of next Telcon: 19/4/05 at 14:00 UTC (09:00 CDT / 10:00 EDT / 15:00 BST / 16:00 CEST) *** Note change in time ***

Charter Discussion
------------------

The co-chairs and Dave Berry had put out the charter for comment, separately the OGSA-WG solicited comments on the 
ByteIO charter. 

In particular, one set of comments from Olegario Hernandez were addressed: 
- concern over whether the writers have properly considered the writing operations in scope (this stemmed from confusion
 within the initial version of scope as compared with the focus)
- the scope does not clearly say what is included

We discussed the charter, reworded the purpose, and tightened the scope to make it consistent.

We feel we have now given adequate time for comment, received comments and addressed them where necessary.

AGREED to submit revised charter, DB has done this.


Telcon
------

Agreed to change telcon time to an hour earlier, to avoid clash with DAIS WG telcons. The new time is Tuesdays at 14:00 
UTC / 09:00 CDT / 15:00 BST,  starting from next week.

[NCH] will advertise new time and distribute minutes

[DB] will book a new telcon slot


Starting Tech
-------------

NCH circulated a paper on experiments done in Edinburgh comparing SOAP Base64, SwA and DIME, and sockets. Mark had also 
done some experiments, which confirm these results.

The problem with using SwA is that in the next Microsoft WSE 3.0 release, it is likely that DIME will go out and MTOM 
will go in. So we lose compatibility in this release.

We can also disregard raw sockets as a default as it's just not going to play nice with any web services normal setup.

NCH will check on the progress of MTOM implementations in Java. There appear to be some commits into Apache on MTOM in 
JAXRPC 2.0 / JAXB.

WebDAV can be wrapped by a simple web service, this might be a possibility, MM will look into this in more detail.


Agenda for next week
--------------------

Continue technical discussion

Start discussing use cases
- binary file
- DAIS query
- sensor

[MM] Write a paragraph or two describing a binary file use case.
[NCH] Send mail to Mario Antonioletti at DAIS to procure an existing use case from DAIS to contribute.
[DB] Send mail to NEC to see if they can provide a sensor use case